Vintage Thing No.44 - The Citroen C15D
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This the pre-facelift C15D and is now quite rare |
It’s just an ordinary panel van really but, whereas all those designer SUVs are too specialised to be useful only as fashion statements, for versatility nothing can touch Mighty Whitey.
My van has acquired many names over the years. It was fleeting known as Oilio Eglasias because it came from Spain, was a little bit oily but was a big hit with the ladies because whenever they needed something moving they suddenly found me and my van very attractive. Or maybe it was just me…
I usually call it The Funbus because so many good times have become associated with it over the years.
Travelling on the continent was interesting. I kept getting waved at. It seemed anyone who was anyone drove one in rural France. In the spirit of “cordial intent” I would wave back but by then my new friends would have had realised that I was on the wrong side of the car. Their happy expressions would change as they realised their conspicuously absent friend was not driving and that my van must have been out of control with a grinning waving loon in the passenger seat. That’s what passed over their previously happy faces at any rate. But by then my van had inexplicably negotiated the next corner and I had crashed out of their lives.
My C15D runs on a sniff of diesel and rarely lets me down. I’ve restored it once already, even though Champs (as they were latterly called) were being given away free at that time by certain commercial vehicle dealers if you bought a bigger van. You drove off in your brand new Iveco, thought it was a bit sluggish, got home, opened the rear doors and there was your free C15D inside, its long armed mirrors on the doors tucked in neatly and bearing a “With Compliments” sticker on the windscreen.
Doing it up made no economic sense whatsoever but it was mine, I knew its history and it had made itself indispensable.
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People ask me if i made the one piece door myself but it came as standard. Later versions have two doors but I prefer this design. |
Auntie Margaret was well on the way to restoring my grandparents’ 300 year old house when she bought her C15D. She worked with blind people, teaching them Braille and handicrafts, and often had to drive them around. To this end she had a folding seat and seat belts fitted to the rear. I’ve kept these although the outside folding step was removed when I fitted a tow bar. She would come home from work and do a little light blockwork or plastering in the evenings. She’s a far better carpenter than I will ever be. Her C15D became a significant part of her tool kit and in recognition of its abilities it was she who christened it Mighty Whitey.
In 1995, she decided something a little bigger would be a good idea and bought a Nissan Vanette. I jumped at the chance to buy her C15D as it only had 48,000 miles on the clock. It’s now coming up to 190,000 miles but that’s nothing. One of the local farms had a Peugeot 205 van and that got up to 305,000 miles on the same 1.7 XUD engine before it was written off in an accident.
The 60bhp (43.5 kW) 80mm x 88mm 1769cc diesel engine is a real world interpretation of perpetual motion. It’s an all iron design that’s tilted to the rear, in typical Peugeot fashion, by 30 degrees. It has a belt drive to single overhead camshaft, a compression ratio of 23:1 and a five bearing crank and the fuel injection systems were either by Bosch or Lucas/CAV/Roto-diesel. Mine is one of the latter.
The Vintage Thing-ness of this engine already been recognised by dint of having its own Haynes manual. This means that my van is the only vehicle I own that needs two manuals, the other one being that which covers the Visa range. As usual with Haynes manuals, there’s a good deal of “Referring to Section 12” but through constantly flicking between both manuals there are oily fingerprints on all the pages. The 1905cc engine has an 83mm bore and a 23.5:1 compression ratio (same head bigger bore) but doesn't put out much more power at 65 bhp (47 kW)but has more torque at 87 lb ft (118Nm) instead of 81 lb ft (110Nm).
On introduction in 1984, there was a 48 bhp 72mm x 69mm 1124cc petrol engine offered but the C15E (E for “essence”) was never as popular in Britain and faded away quietly in the eighties. I haven’t seen one for ages. Some early C15Es had the 70mm x 62mm 954cc engine but the later ones had the 75mm x 77mm 1360cc engine from the Citroen AX. C15Es were recognisable by their three stud wheels but are probably extinct by now. No, the place for the 1360cc AX engine was in the AX, and preferably in injected form.
The diesel version is the vehicle that established Citroen's reputation as a commercial vehicle manufacturer in Britain. Before that there were the 2Cv & Citroen Dyane based vans, the AK400 and the Acadienne, but these were hardly mainstream vehicles. The corrugated panel H vans and the slightly more conventional C25 were rarely seen on this side of the channel.
But with the C15, Citroen were onto a winner - thousands of motor factors up and down this sceptred isle couldn't be wrong. Who cares that the C15 drew heavily from the Peugeot parts bin? There was no Peugeot equivalent. The Peugeot 205 van had a much smaller carrying capacity and the 305 van did not offer the same load height but was a much sleeker design. I reckon the product planners at Peugeot felt they may have missed a trick by not offering a Pug version, a mistake they did not repeat with the Citroen Berlingo and Peugeot Partner.
Obviously based on the Citroen Visa range – again a case of Peugeots in disguise – the C15s were what David Browne, one of my Industrial Design lecturers, called “good, honest little vans.”
I couldn’t have put it better myself.
Front suspension was conventional coil sprung McPherson struts while the rear design owed much to the Citroen BX albeit with steel springs. With a longer wheelbase and a conventional disc/drum brake system, the chassis featured nothing that might put off the hard nosed fleet buyer. The great beauty of the C15D lies in its rugged simplicity.
A smart marketing move on introduction was the Van Rouge/Van Blanc limited edition. You could have any colour so longs as it was red or white and each choice came with the logo of a bottle of wine on wheels placed above the front and rear screens. “Van Rouge or Van Blanc,” ran the ad headline, “but definitely not van ordinaire!”
Julian Marsh has some web pages on C15s and Champs including a Van Rouge/Van Blanc brochure.
Most C15s come in white and so have contributed to the “White Van” myth where nothing is faster on the road than a white van, no matter what you’re driving and how hard you try. White vans are a symbol of contracted-out services where no-one is wholly responsible and they are generally driven by “White Van Man” (Homo sapiens cowboi urbanus) who lacks social skills and to whom the Highway Code does not apply. With only 60 bhp in even its most powerful form, I think the C15 is probably the acceptable face of the “White Van.”
Being mistaken for tradesman is part and parcel of driving a C15. I once parked in St Cleer near where I live and an old man came hurrying out of his house and said “Thanks heavens you’re here! There’s water everywhere!” It was raining at the time so we were at cross purposes for at least the first half of the ensuing exchange but in the end he narrowed his eyes and said “You are Mr Pote the plumber aren’t you?” Looking back, I could have offered to help but I think I did the right thing by revealing my true identity. It would have been like that scene from Some Mothers Do ‘Ave ‘Em where Frank Spencer, who is working as a gas man, visits a house. A few seconds after entering, it blows up and out of the smoke emerges Frank and the householder with blackened faces. “Well,” says Frank, “I’m afraid that’s the best I can do.”
The original payload was 500kg with a useable volume of 2,66m³ but Payload is either 600kg or 765kg. Although a 1986 model, so dating from the first year of availability in the UK, my example is just too young to be a proper “Van Blanc” (do any of these survive, I wonder?). Due to tax regulations, UK models were supplied with the side windows everyone else got filled in with a flat panel of steel that always rusted quickly. I subsequently had windows fitted and the improvement to visibility was dramatic, especially at acute angle junctions.
I've done a lot
of work to mighty Whitey over the years
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My machine has a four speed box, where most have a five speed, and a single rear door. Apparently, a firm in France called Enac recognised the fact that these single doors were prone to sagging and being caught by the wind and offered a two door conversion soon after the C15 was launched. The factory soon noticed and after a couple of years the two door variety was introduced and standardised. My rear door did get a bit bent by the wind once at St Agnes when the door restraint was snapped with the force but I unbent it without too much trouble. Some people have remarked upon it, wondering if I have done the conversion myself. I really like it as it reminds me of the custom single rear doors you would sometimes see on Mini and Escort vans.
Citroen facelifted the C15D in 1989, incorporating the indicators in the front bumpers and sprucing up the interior. From then on very little changes were made to the range since it was clearly such a success. The only impact from the introduction of the Berlingo range was the use of the newer van’s more modern 1868cc engine that subsequently conformed with Euro 3 emissions standards. Power steering came in from 1994 and the option of petrol engines on the continent ended in 1998, by which time everyone in the UK had practically forgotten they’d ever existed. Goodness knows when the tooling and development costs were recouped but the old wagon just kept on selling. When production ended at the end of 2005, 1,181,471 had been built at the Vigo plant in Spain with assembly plants in Morocco and Poland.
Something similar is still in production in China. The Fukang ZX N 15 is based on the Citroen ZX and is very much a more modern interpretation of the C15D although the recently introduced Citroen Nemo looks much flasher.
In fits of enthusiasm for my old van, I sometimes contemplate souping it up but this last long because this would compromise its reliability and usefulness. I have enough projects without Mighty Whitey becoming another one. It was interested to hear about the 16 valve BX powered version of Barry and Robert Lowdell for this must be the ultimate C15 and a marvellous street sleeper. Unfortunately, it recently succumbed to rust but will rise gain soon.
When I restored it before, I found very bad corrosion in the rear suspension subframe. There was also wear in the rear suspension arms giving my van a knock kneed look when viewed from the rear. I investigated doing the work myself but found that a Sykes-Pickavant coil spring compressor for the horizontal springs cost something like ₤450. Then one of my neighbours suggested paying a visit to the local vehicle salvage yard and we found a fairly new motor factor's van that had been written off. It was also in top of a Metro so undoing the subframe bolts and removing the whole axle was a much easier and cheaper solution.
The brakes have always been a bit "wooden", even from new. As a private owner van, it often runs quite light and I use lower rear tyre pressures (30 psi instead of the recommended 36psi) than a heavily laden van would need. There is a pressure limiting device in the braking system that stops the brakes locking up if unladen but I remember once sliding to a halt facing the edge once in an emergency stop when I borrowed it from Auntie Margaret a few years after she bought it new. Since then I think the pressure limiting device has had more to do and more varying loads - Mighty Whitey often carries more weight and the rear wheels haven't locked up since then.
But I still don't like the way they "feel". A recent new master cylinder, discs, pads and various servo pumps haven't made much difference.
The brakes and the lack of a tacho (I like seeing my engine speed) are about the only things that displease me mildly. And I'm investigating fitting a tacho.
Most people would have scrapped my van when it got this rusty. Fortunately I have the technology. And the inclination. |
This study corrosion is often revealed when one unbolts the front wing on an elderly C15D. Mine is all better now. |
More recently, I’ve replaced the clutch. Reverse has been difficult to get, literally for years, and when I’d reached the end of the adjustment I created a longer adjusting rod, knowing that this was not a permanent solution. It seems that the tension on the diaphragm fingers was gradually going and reverse, which lacks synchromesh, would sometimes protest when I attempted to engage it. This was the signal to get out and get under and re-adjust it but, when the gearbox suddenly began to gnash its teeth just after the van got its MOT, I bit the bullet and decided to replace the clutch. I already had a clutch kit in my stores - that's the advantage of owning a vehicle for a long time, the spare parts tend to find you when you don't need them. When you do need them, they can be quite elusive.
On separating the gearbox from the engine, it was obvious that I'd had all my money's worth out of the pressure plate. It wouldn't have been long before it failed completely. Many of the inner ends of the diaphragm fingers were missing completely.
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This was the clutch that featured in my blog entry on the Blackman Black Museum recently. Note the worn fingers at the centre. |
The clutch had become incredible heavy – something I’d come to accept over the years – and I noticed that under pressure the bulkhead was moving in and out like someone’s chest breathing when I depressed the clutch. Pulling away the sound absorbing material on the bulkhead revealed no cracks but in the interests of better pedal pressure I mad a small bracket that bolted onto the pedal box mounting points and fed these loads into the inner wing. It doesn’t move any more.
Along with a new air filter, these changes have transformed the way my old van drives and I’m already planning some more camping expeditions in the summer – probably being mistaken for a tradesman along the way.
I've just bought a 2000 version of one of these in silver, like your aunt, in order to renovate my house. Got to be cheaper than skips, delivery charges and mucking up the family car. Steers like a cow (no PAS) whilst the brakes are inherently bad (even with front discs), but I just love its honesty, value for money and general frugality. So even when the local thug and his mates fancy going on the rampage on a drink fuelled Saturday night, the cost of replacing a door mirror is only a tenner!!!! And it's a vehicle I can actually maintain without having to be thwarted by black boxes and expensive "garage-only" diagnostic machines.
ReplyDeleteRegards
Ian (Birmingham)
Very much enjoyed your article, I've been driving round in one of these for just under a year now. The rear suspension has developed a loud clonk of late and I wondered if there was any accompanying noise with the wear in the rear suspension arms on yours?
ReplyDeleteThere was indeed a clonk. But do your rear wheels look knock kneed when viewed from the back? I think this is the give away.
ReplyDeleteMine currently has a clonk but I reckon it's a cable clip securing the handbrake. This can move along the suspension arm and momentarily catch on a flange. I can see where it's been moving and it's only occurring on that side. Here's hoping it's that simple for you. If not, I can recommend swapping the whole rear axle from a scrapper.
I'll have a look but I think it's more serious than the handbrake clip, it's really loud. It usually happens twice, almost as if the first time whatever it is happens and then it pops back into place. The back wheels are slightly inclined inwards at the top, is that what you mean by knock-kneed? Think I might be in the market for a new back axle then :/
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I think you might be right. I do mean knock kneed by being inclined at the top but mine were so bad in the end that the inside of the side wall fouled on a flange in the wheel arch.
ReplyDeleteI am now wondering about buying another rear axle of my own for whenever this happens again. I intend to keep my van indefinitely and getting one now will be easier than in a few years time.
Hello Bob,
ReplyDeleteI have exactly the same shape 1989 C15 van for sale.
I think it has the same engine and 4 speed box as yours..
It's completely original, and in very good condition..
Please contact me if you are interested, or know of any one..
Regards,
Wayne
Excellent vehicles. Nice to see an early UK survivor.
ReplyDeleteThese were Citroen's first van for many years in Britain.. The AK and Acadiane were never sold here.
Thanks Boo. I've got a few cosmetic jobs to do on mine this year but this work should be completed in time for another road trip in it during early summer.
ReplyDeleteExcellent I own a 52 version
ReplyDeleteExcellent communication
ReplyDeleteThanks David. I'll do an update on my van dreckly (good Cornish word) as quite a lot has happened to it recently
ReplyDeleteJust purchased another c15 spares and attending sleeping pod
ReplyDeleteI've just got some better doors for mine. They're red but I can repaint them in white
ReplyDeletethanks for this article. i love my c15, have had it for over 5 years now and done over 50.000 miles in it. looking forward to doing many more. it's a 2000 1.8 d version. cheers
ReplyDeleteThat should be good for many more years Jasper. I really miss mine now it's off the road but that shouldn't be the case for much longer
ReplyDeleteHi Bob,our Hilda,1995 c15d regularly takes us to the south of France,bought her in 1998 with 23000 on the clock now175000 love her to bits she is a Romahome hylo,fight the rust with waxoil/ dinitrol and it's a constant fight.She is going to A&B axials this weekend for a sort out of trailing arm bearings etc have purchased spring assist,to go on her not cheep but every bit of help for the rear end is needed.She sales through the mots and she is a true Labour of love.The French love her we have photos taken and lots of waves from them.She is a great conversation starter.All the best keep vaning,Philip Prust.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to hear you're keeping the rot at bay. I've seen some really rough C15 campers. In fact one owner at a filling station a few years coveted my really rusty doors! I am working up to respraying my van but the weather isn't really suitable.
ReplyDeleteHi Bob. I had a 1985 Visa 1.1 nearly 20 years ago and it was rusting badly then, it's great to read that you're persevering with your C15 and I hope you get it revived soon.
ReplyDeleteI've recently been looking at getting myself a little van for practical stuff; mountain bikes, fire wood, dog etc. But cars and vans have got so complicated and expensive/awkward to work on over the last twenty years that it's difficult to find something solid and reliable at my end of the market (the very bottom). I've decided that a C15 is definitely the van for me, good mechanical engineering, one of the best diesel engines and it's something I would enjoy working on. A complete antithesis of the stop/start, bluetooth enabled, traction controlled, self braking, gps tracked nonsense of today.
I'll keep an eye out for your lovely van as I'm just over the hill in Launceston and I always go through St Cleer if I'm going Liskeard (I like those corners by the second cattle grid on the Minions road)
Hallo Ralph. Sorry for the time it's taken for me to reply but I have been welding the van. I hope it will be on the road again soon because it's so bloody useful and - as one of my neighbours puts it - "a good servant" to me. I shall do an update dreckly (good Cornish word)and keep an eye for you keeping an eye for me.
DeleteDoes anyone have the one spoke steering wheel they're willing to part with.
ReplyDeleteI brought an 05 c15 last year. Just had Mot on her, no welding needed ��. She is a bit tatty here and there though. Would really love the early one spoke steering wheel though. Any help in finding one will be much appreciated.
Can anyone help Marcus? If no joy yet, I can recommend the Citroen Car Club. It has a strong Visa section with links to the continental scene and you'd be amazed what our Dutch and Belgian cousins can dig out, to say nothing fo the French enthusiasts
DeleteGlad you have had many happy years of motoring in your old whitey.
ReplyDeleteI have just brought an old 94 champ 1.8 van , I'm trying to run on veg oil but for the life of me I can not find out which Bosch pump I should use to replace the Lucas one as it will not work on veg oil.
If you could give me any pointers then that would be awesome.
In other news . . . the champ is an epic van. I have ever only driven dumpers before and this is a big step up , but without the power stearing it ain't to much of a step up !!
Hello from USA. Just bought a C15 with diesel and looking forward to using it. It's a 90 with a newer (96?) diesel engine. Any recommendations on keeping it going other than looking out for rot and regular maintenance? Right now no rust to speak of and only 65,000 kilometers on the unit. Thanks
ReplyDeleteThe suspension arms bearings can wear over time and the wheels look a little knock kneed from the rear. I had mine rebuilt by a specialist in this country who do a lot of business from the continent! Unfortunately there are no grease points to enable you to prolong the life of these bearings. like you say, though, it's rust that is the killer usually. Whereabouts in the states are you?
ReplyDeleteI'm in Michigan where they salt the roads all winter. I plan on not driving during the cold months. I have another question. I'm all but certain the engine which is diesel is a 1.9. If I'm reading correctly there are two variant a 60 and a 69 HP. I want to have the timing belt changed. How does one determine which engine it is? Thanks
DeleteThanks for the comment regarding rust. I'm having great difficulty finding out about the C15 I have. It has a 1.9 diesel, but, I think there may be 2 variants a 60HP and a 69HP. I want to replace the timing belt, but, it appears they use different ones. Is there any way to tell which variant my C15 has? My 2CV is so simple compared to this vehicle, but, i must say it's a true joy to drive. Thank you in advance for any advise.
ReplyDeletefor a definitive answer on timing belts, I would ask the Visa forum.
Deletehttps://www.tapatalk.com/groups/visaforum
Alternatively, the Visa section of the Citroen Car Club, a UK based organisation, is very helpful.
Deletehttps://citroencarclub.org.uk/visa-ln-lna-axel-c15/
DeleteI got the timing belt changed along with the water pump and tension pulley, All indication are that the body is a 2004 or 2005. Are these later model C15's as prone to rust and rot away as the earlier ones? I did rad somewhere that some of the body is galvanized. Mine has no obvious rust at all.
ReplyDeleteGood work! These motors should last for ages but don't rely on the water temperature light warning you if something is wrong. I have a gauge fitted to mine now. I don't think the later ones were galvanised. They all seem to rust here in the UK and have suddenly got very rare. I have become a waving acquaintance with the owner of a 55 plate C15 Champ nearby and one day will ask them if its galvanised and see what differences there are between an early one like mine and the last ever ones.
DeleteThanks, this spring I plan on adding temp, oil pressure, and an amp gauge along with a gps speedometer. I think my speedo is off and/or my 74 year old mind is miscalculating kph to mph. Am hoping part of the body is galvanized, however, have no plans on driving the car on salty winter roads here in Michigan. Great site by the way.
DeletePlan on getting the C15 out for warm weather driving soon. Two tasks to complete, think I found the intermittent short that caused the demise of the original alternator. Also noted that the car smokes a lot in cold weather start ups. I'm assuming it's the glow plugs which will be replaced, all four, in the coming weeks. Looks to be a job compared to some engines!
DeleteHi all.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone help me. I have a c15 romahome. In the last mot the rear torsion bushes are down as worn. Speaking to Ray Williams slough he says it is easier to replace the existing torsion bar with a sub frame. Apparently there was a company in Devon called Mount field engineering who did these but this seems to have gone out of business. Does anyone know if there are any other companies out there who do something similar.
Pete
The C15D has conventional coil springs mounted horizontally. I suspect it's the axle pivots that are worn like mine were. Ask A B Axles of Axminster for advice. They sorted my worn bearings out (http://abaxles.co.uk/en/about/) . If it's the front subframe mounts (the circular bushes in a bolt on alloy housing), these are much easier to replace.
DeleteMy C15 acts as if it's missing even though it's a diesel. Changed the fuel and air filters, no improvement. Any ideas? Thanks
ReplyDeleteWhen does it miss? Have you tried injector cleaner?
DeleteAnybody fitted after market temperature gauge and all of the associated hardware to make sure fan and warning light etc come on
ReplyDeleteYes. I fitted a sender unit after the thermostat in the rad hose and put the gauge on top of the instrument binnacle. I also have a manual over ride so I can put the fans on if I anticipate it getting hot. This was some time ago and there may be less invasive eways to do this now. i.e. temperature sender units you can apply externally
DeleteI need a camshaft for my c15d I would like to buy a used on if anyone has one to sell . I live in Trinidad . West Indies and I can cet it here.
ReplyDeleteSorry for a late reply but have you found one? If not I can recommend the Citroen Car Club. They have a Visa and C15D section within the club and can help with spares networking and finding specialist firms who might have the camshaft you need
DeleteReally enjoyed your article, I could feel your passion and love for 'Mighty Whitey". Your Aunt was indeed a woman of taste..I drive a c15D 2000 1800. He goes by the name 'Monsieur Jean Luc 🤣. I live in London so ULEZ has killed me. However I won't give him uo. Instead I have fitted false plates, but don't tell anyone. Warmest regards
ReplyDeleteOo you naughty person you! Don't worry your secret will remain safe here with me and my readers...
ReplyDeleteI live in Cornwall where air quality is not an issue but am perplexed about the way London's ULEZ has been introduced. For instance, another years and Mighty Whitey will be exempt!
I am glad you're keeping your C15D. They provide sustainable motoring which has to be better for the environment, despite the vagaries of government.